DUSK — Jahilia calling
Following interview was prepared for printed mailorder catalogue of Epidemie Records label, which was published in November 2003 in Czech translation. Because of its extend and themes included we thought it would be a shame if it reached only few people from Czech audience. Therefore we decided to use the original English version as a multimedia part of this CD. I hope you will enjoy this interview.
Martin Cech / Epidemie Records
Hi Babar. I think this is first interview you are giving to the Czech audience. So, could you please introduce yourself at the very beginning and tell us something interesting about you?
Greetings from yet another setting sun. Yes! The rumors are true; this is indeed the very first exposure in an interview form that Dusk is ever been given, specifically for a Czech audience. About the introduction part, I personally think that introductions can become rather mundane and boring, so to put elements into global fashion, this treat could be for only the ones that are reading this text, as I am further attaching a write up (introduction) that is going to be a part of our forthcoming Compact Disc with Epidemie Records. Read between the lines please.
"As the creation of Jahilia called upon the voices - the torn pages recollected, along multi dimensional shores of the weeping oceans. The thought of expression became clear. The season was winter and the year nineteen hundred and ninety four. Dusk took birth. Black inks stormed virgin white papers through the coming years. Insanities were put to tape during this time. One of such achievements was entitled "Where Dreams Bleed" which was set to path amidst the ninety-sixth year of the century featuring revelations. Time frames ravished and the dim light matured. Three years from the time of birth, involved individuals in the process of thought walked away from the shadows to attain communion with the orchards where whispers resided. Thus in the name of splendid heights that echoed pleasures unforeseen, another collection of thoughts was captured. The recording facility with white lights processed thoughts and bleak sounds into a compendium of progressive gray atmospheres. This execution was marked "My Infinite Nature Alone". And it was presented to the other world by comrades.
The participants of the black and white quest, walked along unfamiliar roads, with the fever to further create and enhance the infinite craving. Famished by a solitary dream scope, the latest chapter in the books of despair was written. Jahilia - brings forth a realm of expression that highlights the loss off ones self, and relates it to elements that fall under the light of severe abstraction".
And once you are in the middle of doing that, could you introduce the second part of DUSK, or some other people that created the new album, guests etc.?
Indeed! The second offering by Dusk, I should think would be available in the times frames of Late Autumn 2003, and will be unleashed upon the atmospheres & worldly desires by our friends and believers at Epidemie Records. So for all individuals that did not get a chance to witness our initial expression, the debut record (My Infinite Nature Alone, released in 1999), featured a sound that was said to be uncategorized by many who heard it. At that time I think we were at a phase in our lives where we went a little over board at times with being experimental. And paid a small price just for the sake and cost of sounding experimental.
We call our selves a progressive metal band but with our debut release we got all sorts of labels and categories like "Diversified Symphonic Art Metal", so I guess many of you know now what that sound was like.
As for the sound and the overall feeling or the expression this time around, I would say that we have still managed to experiment quite a bit, for example many critics and musician friends that heard this record commented in diverse fashions. Some said "Sounds like the band broke up and reunited after six or seven years with a reformed sound", others said, Dusk has reinvented itself with this sound", but the truth is really that, all we have tried to do with this record is improve our sound, and make a slight quantum leap into the present seasons of our minds, without losing sight of what our sound is all about in the first place.
We recorded this record in our own home studios (Studio B93) located in Karachi, where Faraz and I are based. We had an assistant engineer who worked with us for the initial part of the recording, but since then myself and Faraz have been totally indulged in what the final out come would be like. Some parts here are really not recorded with us, for example there is an ample usage of sound bytes (from other sources) and samples. The samples are what really add to the final texture of the record. They not only work to produce another projection, but also contribute to the imagery that we like to portray through our text and our music. Instrumentation is usually the department with Faraz, as this time around we made the digital possibilities endless, but still a session drummer does play for a certain track titled "Decadent Little Girl". That track itself has been recorded in a live session type set up at a very renowned studio in Lahore (Another city in Pakistan).
Another track, namely "As Pain Becomes Liquid" features sound bytes that were recorded on a DAT machine by a friend who happened to be a visitor to a legendry Sufi Festival here in Pakistan. The sounds that he managed to capture were truly awe-inspiring and I thought that they should make home here on this record. Enter Jahilia - the desert of familiarities.
In 1999 the debut album "My Infinite Nature Alone" was published on Portuguese label Hibernia productions. What has been happening with the band since then?
That is true, My Infinite Nature Alone was the eventual result of our negotiations and appearances with a Portugal based record company called Hibernia (now Hiberica) Productions. Since they released the debut record in December 1999, the band received much appraisal and appreciation from international underground and semi mainstream media. In 2001 Hibernia finally decided to end our relationship, as the style they were catering to was now more bent towards old school and early nineties sounding black and death metal. By the end of this year we started to record the follow up. This resulted in a well unexpected manner, in the form of what is now called "Jahilia".
Throughout the year 2002, we were constantly sending advanced tracks from out new recording to potential record companies. Many showed interest, but as fate and light have a nature of their own, nothing seemed to become reality for us. Faraz thought the record was heavily experimental with some solid musicianship, and some big record label should have noticed us, but at the same time I really can imagine the kind of marketing pains that record company has to go through to sell a record such as ours. With all such queries and realizations taken into consideration, we seemed to be happy to go ahead with a record deal offered to us by a Far East Asia based label. They seemed to be interested in their approach and everything was finally happening after all, but just then, SARS struck that region of the world, seriously damaging the economies and businesses in that country. We were told to wait for another year. And then till the recent months I received an email from a great friend in Czech Republic. Since those time frames, we have a record label to take care of us and mother us again. In fact this is why I get this fabulous opportunity to answer these questions.
Right in these days the second album "Jahilia" is to be published. Tell us something about how it was with a preparation and its origin.
Taking after the last link from where I left off a few moments back in time, indeed, our sophomore recording titled "Jahilia" would soon be published by Epidemie Records from the Czech Republic. This recording will finally see the light of the dark, as I mentioned earlier that it has been put onto recording facilities since over a year now. The record itself will be more of a new beginning for Dusk in many a ways, for example with "Jahilia" we are finally breaking our "Over 10 minute" time code, as most of the tracks on our debut resulted in this manner. Most of the origination of thoughts and ideas for this record were envisioned quite a while back. We use a Hammond Organ sound at many places, amongst other keyboard passages, that definitely adds to the overall atmosphere of the album, since we never used keys in the past recordings. The lyrics are mostly text passages that I write for myself in an old black book that I have been carrying with me for some years now. Unlike the last record the lyrical content just like the musical content is much more diverse and adventurous in its subject matter.
One has to understand that with Dusk, elements work in different ways. For the sole creation of this expression, I wrote words ever since 1999. These words are then processed (if you can call it that), selected, and are then improvised upon. Once we have a concept or a collection of sentences, somewhat sketching the out lines of a track, we then take it to the next phase, which is where Faraz brings the instrumentation in. Postproduction has also become some thing of an integral process for us, since a lot of sounds and textures are added at the time when we are finalizing a track. These textures then later determine the actual face of each track. I personally feel "Jahilia" is more of an artwork, or maybe a book, or a sculpture, rather than a music album.
Why "Jahilia"? What does the name mean? Can you think of each song on your new album and tell us what inspired you while composing, what is it about?
"Jahilia" itself is a word from the Arabic language, and quite literally translated, means "An era or period of ignorance". According to religious significance it symbolizes the time prior to the advent of the Islamic religion.
However with being the title for this album, the capacity we used the word "Jahila" at, was completely different. The effect is somewhat the same as the impact of the direct meaning would have, but one could say we translate it into a symbolic gesture, that could be applied to certain situations. For example the words "Jahilia calling - All there ever were black and white. Our street lamp sorrow - Along with our shadows - Obtuse, could be taken under any effect. Some might even think this is a very abstract manner of relation words together. In fact, this is all there is within the concept of Jahila, and the amplification we provide it with the addition of some abstraction.
In the book of Dusk, Jahilia is another chapter. This chapter describes a place or location situation within each and every individual. To recognize Jahilia, one must travel through it. And that only shall occur if one indulges into oneself to extend of eternal ignorance. Ignorance to every relationship and bond, one has with any other soul.
I started mentioning Jahilia in my writings ever since the past three years or so, and have related most of my writings to this eventful locality.
Unlike the first album titled My Infinite Nature Alone (Which I wrote for the woman I loved the most in my life), this album takes influences from surrounding images, subliminal forms and shapes that have an effect over reality. The entire concept of Jahilia takes real life examples of happenings and beliefs and distorts them to a point of abstraction. For example some lines from another track on the album suggest, Unbounded by sexual intellect and reflections - The bride cries undercover hidden from senses.
Where and when did you create this album? Did you have a producer? Who was looking after mastering works? Is it problematic to make a metal album in Pakistan? Are you satisfied with final sound?
As I mentioned earlier on, with pervious recordings we were always hiring some high end recording facility or the other. These studios, despite having magnificent machines never had engineers or producer that would suit our needs or sound. As a result, the debut album received amazing reviews, just besides the production quality, which was too clean or crisp for its own good. Metal is not a common form of music in this region of the world, it is not acceptable by the masses, till recent times, where pathetic (call it what ever, I call it Dance Metal) forms of modern rock / metal have taken over. In local recording studios, very few people were aware how to treat or produce a good guitar sound. All these obstacles proved fateful for us, as Faraz set up his own facility in aggravation. Since those times he has produced many pieces there, but "Jahilia" was the first record that was done there.
We really wish we could have a producer, as that truly makes a hell of a difference to the overall sound. The ideal producer for Dusk would be legendary musician / guitar player / composer / producer, "Mike Old Field", as myself and Faraz have always been attracted to his work and have studied many of his sound and progression techniques.
A friend of ours called Shahi Hasan, is a local legend as far as music production is concerned, he was kind enough to offer us a great deal for mastering the entire opus. He also designed the intro (Attachments) and the outré (Translucence) to the album. Shahi is superb as far as sound definition and other mastering wizardries are concerned. I can't really say I am a hundred percent satisfied with the final sound of the record, as there is always room for improvement. Of course we learnt many things and technical details since Faraz and myself were the only producers to the record. But once again I would say, Pakistan is probably not a great place to record a metal album.
With a new album, you also did a good work on video clip for the old song "Returning". Can you disclose to us how did you create it all, how the work was going and where and when did you realize it? Why did you choose this song?
Yes to be really honest, being an artist and a film maker, I really wanted to make a series of visual attachments to the sounds of Dusk, but never felt that the time for such a thing had arrived, until the last year, when a newly appointed, fresh minded cinematographer stated working with me. He necessarily thought that there should be video clip for the sounds we make. As always I thought to myself, that maybe the atmosphere required fulfilling the void between image and sound would be absolutely impossible to create and would require lots of money. We decided to shoot some images for a track from the last record. This track titled "Returning" appears as a full ten-minute plus opus on the debut album, but a shorter version of it appears on our last release "Hearts of Darkness" (An anthology of Dusk from 1995 to 2002). The edited version of the track is over two minutes in running time and exemplifies most of what Dusk is about. Last year we were shooting documentary films in various regions of Pakistan, so all we did was shoot random images at these various interesting locations. During the summer we layered this mixture of imagery together and added some sounds to it, some of the colors that appear on the clip are nearly original, while others are treated in ways. The locations vary from Pakistan's Southern oceanic regions to the mountainous - forested Northern areas. I personally think this was the best recipe to create this video clip. We also have plans to shoot some more interesting stuff in the future, and just finished shooting a small version for another older track called "Beautiful Unfortunate" in the subways of Chicago City, hopefully one can preview this on our web site in the near future.
What is the difference between "Jahilia" and "My Infinite Nature Alone"?
On a singe level, both the albums, as complete pieces of work are in the same vein, while sounding completely away from one another, as many dubbed "Jahilia" as a very progressive piece of work, while other people can immediately pin point the unique Dusk feeling within the sound. As for the members' points of view, we feel that this album is and was precisely the collection of sounds that we should have created after "My Infinite Nature Alone". Quite audible is the apparent usage of many other sound elements that we never used before, for example the organ sound and other synthesizer tracks are quite obvious within the layers, the samples and multi tracking of vocals is also something that I started doing with the debut album, but this time I think it sounds more complete, in fact that goes with everything, as what we started doing with the previous record, I think "Jahilia" is just a step forward in that same direction. I am very fond of progression but also I am a believer of never loosing the sight of one's roots and beginnings. I feel that with the first album, we never gave much thought to important elements like the heaviness of the guitar sound and other such basic factors. On another level I feel Jahilia is much more basic and focused than the debut. The entire two album process has almost been like discovering a whole new world and then eventually settling down at your favorite most preferred place.
The music you play does not sound like ordinary metal. Bands which are not very "typical" are quite hard bite for the reviewers as they do not know where to place them, how to bring them near to the listeners. How would you, as an author introduce your music?
Seriously, that is a very tough question, because when we are creating such music, we never think or say to ourselves "this sounds so complicated it will be hard to place". That is never the case with Dusk, it is just very heartfelt music, and comes across as a combination of various styles of music. Surely bent towards the "Metal" tangent, but also being like a revelation of so many different moods and ideas. Bands in the past that have been really influential for us still seem to be some kinds of an underground phenomenon. Great bands like Camel, Rush and Tribal Tech still appear in front of small audiences in not so great venues. I feel that within the metal scene, there seems to be a mainstream and a non commercial edge. There are times when everyone seems to be producing Gothic Metal records with a loud keyboard sound and female choir, then there are phases when Raging well produced blackened death metal seems to be selling like nobody's business.
Dusk falls into a category that is still quite away and if I might say "beyond" the every day metal head. Believe me or not I have met Dusk listeners all over the world and there is a very insane spectrum of individuals that I saw. Anyone and everyone from people who have gone through some kind of a heavy emotional phase in life, people with dead friends, people who have fought disease in the past, people who read some heavy duty literature, and people who themselves are artists and such.
The sounds that we produce will always bring surprise or confusion for the reviewer and also to an avid listener. Really all I can express here is that, it is beyond just the sounds coming from your stereo player, it is about the visuals and images, the music leaves behind, it is about the shades and being an observer.
The future is before us. Do you have any idea of the third album of DUSK? Would it link to "Jahilia" in any way or could we expect some change or anything completely different?
The link will surely be present, as there also is with the current album and our debut record, the first album leaves the listener with a track called "Beautiful Unfortunate" and "Jahilia" opens with an introduction track titled "Attachments" where beautiful unfortunate is somewhat used as a tool to bring forth a link between the two pieces of work. It serves as some kind of an anchor for a transitional moment, if such a thing exists. Similarly, I really can not say how and where, but I am hopeful that there will be such a revisiting moment or a link to our current sound with our future sound. Now what the future brings for us in terms of sounds, I can not realize at this point, but I some what visualize it and seems to me that the we would like to bring forward a more cultured home grown type of sound, that is progressive as always, yet never abandons our basic roots. Faraz is heavily into fusion jazz since many years now and I feel a listener can usually tell this, but witnessing some of his solos, where as I, myself have been indulging in a lot of 1970's progressive music, with some great and ever living synthesizer sounds, so maybe there will be a hint from that era on the next album. The really warm and yellow red tone from the 1970's is really amazing.
On the other hand, we are really bent on the idea of using a producer for our next record, also maybe the addition of a third member might take place, as I might be initiating some conversations with musicians such as Paul Masvidal (Ex-Cynic). In the beginning of next year I will try my level best to spot some artists / musicians who would like to work together on the next Dusk record as a collaborative effort. If such a possibility arises it will be a once in a life time experience for us, and also would add another flavor to our sound and expression. You never know as the next album might end up as some kind of a film sound track, as always we shall take it all a step forward and might take the opportunity to record in a different country.
DUSK is the only band that could represent Pakistan on international metal scene. Now, I am curious to know how you got in touch with metal. What was your personal musical "evolution", your musical journey? What did you start with and what do you prefer to listen to at the moment?
It is true that the status Dusk has earned over the past years in the International scene is exemplary, (if I might say so myself). Dusk initiated in the year 1995, and to be at least honest, at that time people could never identify musical styles such as metal (black, death, doom etc.). We started as a very chaotic sounding death metal band with lots of Bathory / Possessed influences, it was quite later that we felt the natural evolution, and witnessed our sound becoming quite experimental and progressive. When I started Dusk, there was no base camp for metal here in Pakistan, people always thought you had some severe metal illness if you would be a serious metal head, and exposure at any imaginable level was impossible. This was the time when I was in touch with some bands from metal scenes in Malaysia and Singapore, and these were the brethren who forwarded the name of Dusk to foreign magazines, and promoters, soon it was 1996 and we recorded a professional promo tape called "Where Dreams Bleed" and circulated it through the underground by the help of post and flyers and also not forgetting the infamous "Hidden Cash Style". In 1998 we started the recording for our debut album, for a Singapore based label, which later were unable to make a commitment to release the album due to some problems; it was that time when Hibernia from Portugal approached us and the rest as they say is al history. Looking back now I feel that those times were the true moments that really established Dusk at a status it stands at today.
I still remember the first ever-Dusk interview and demo review that appeared in a few Greek Underground Magazines; at that time it seemed like the supreme most thing that could ever happen. I feel now times have changed beyond recognition, as the Internet has made these possibilities endless. Maybe this is a great change for many people, but I still appreciate the time when one really had to struggle and wonder if the last sent demo tape reached its destination safely or not. There was always a strange kind of anticipation in the air.
As I was also playing bass for quite some years in an Eastern / Western fusion group, my horizons as a listener really broadened. At the current moment I am listening to lots of stuff from the 1970's era of Camel, Some releases from Mike Old Field, the last album from Negura Bunget, Brave Murder Day by Katatonia, the debut album from Beyond Dawn, my favorite death and black metal bands The Crown and Dissection, some early demos from Mayhem, a CD which features some collaborative work by the great producer / songwriter / musician Brian Eno, and of course the last release from Swans and Killing Joke.
Are there, in Pakistan any other bands or different music styles that are well known around the world ? For example I like very much ethno - electronically Fun Da Mental, which are very popular in Europe and Czech Republic too. In this case, their roots are Pakistani, but those people live in London, don't they? The thing I am interested in is, if there is any Pakistani band, that creates their music and live in Pakistan and is known in Europe or some other countries, have a concerts around etc.
There is a lot going on in terms of musical styles right now in Pakistan, but sadly enough only on a very horizontal level. The creators of this music see themselves dwelling into some uncharted categories, where is all they are doing is really some off shoot of basic pop and rock music, Usually one can witness Rock bands fusing their music together with some Eastern Classical Choruses and beats from traditional instruments. Since the past two years I noticed the appearance of some heavy layered sounds even with basic pop or easy listening music, this was a result of some heavy duty modules and machines that had been used and the influence of Indian mainstream music as well.
This is the reason; I prefer the basic roots, the completely traditional local music from Pakistan, which is usually recorded in one take and in a matter of a few hours in recording facilities. They have this whole untapped energy present within them.
Ustad Nustat Fateh Ali Khan was very well known and appreciated the world over, even though a lot of his Pakistani and Indian followers do not really appreciate the fusion work he produced in the west. Other than that Fun Da Mental is a good example as you mentioned. I really can not say that a band of musician group famous at a larger level even abroad would be still residing in Pakistan. This would only be the case with the fabulous and completely magical musical geniuses like "Sohrab Fakir" who have really made a mark as traditional Sufi music exports from these regions. Foreign record companies sometimes fly these great Sufi musicians to the west or some times record them in the confines of their own regions. I have witnessed a great awareness for Sufi music in the west and it is a phenomenon that will continue to grow.
Is it difficult to be "different" in Pakistan? I mean how you look like, your image - long hair and big beard could irritate, maybe It could cause problems even in Europe and I can't imagine the situation in orthodox Islamic republic of Pakistan .. Do you have any problems with such a thing? How do you see and value your life in Pakistan, are you satisfied there? Is your future life and its plans connected with your country or would you prefer to live and work somewhere else?
It occurs to me at this point in time, that I really went through a lot of phases mentally when I was growing up, and living in a place like Pakistan, I always wanted to have that eternal non-conventional air about myself, from the time when I was nearly nine years old I thought it was a cult to be cult. I started with metal at a very young age, so I went though a phase where Venom records, black leather and chains was all I had, then there was of course the entire middle nineties time frame where I grew my hair really long, and always used to wear a black coat with a an occult book always in my hand, and I never used to talk to many people in my university in that time (just to have a mystery about myself). The late nineties made me more experimental and I had that long beard and this was the time where I traveled to Nepal for some adventure and returned listening to some really intense eastern western fusion music. What I really mean to say is that the way I look now in appearance is mostly a result of all these insane years from my mental cultivation, which seems both strange and beautiful to me now. At many times I really think I was confused in my past, because I wanted to wear combat clothes, along with a dog collar, and a Hindu religious symbol in my neck to be topped with some gothic attire. This seems completely insane to me now. It was more like providing a shock therapy to the entire society I lived in, and I think I greatly succeeded. I always used to get a kick out of carrying out the most unconventional of activities there ever could be. People in Europe meet me and the never believe that I am from Pakistan. For me that is another positive thing, because I think that my appearance brings another perspective into people's minds about Pakistan. Where as people from my own nation are concerned, I always get comments about the way I dress up and carry myself in public. It is from time to time that people can me negative and positive about the way I come across as lots of them expect me to be a foreigner on an insanity trip. For example people cannot understand me when I go for a trek to a place like Nepal, or why I wear black fingernail color on my nails, however (not the people) but other factors should be blamed for a certain degree of closed mindedness incorporated into the society in these regions.
Just the fact that I have never became part of a complication because of my appearance, is a positive notion for me in itself.
On this place I think it is good to point out that you live in Karachi, which is the biggest city in Pakistan ( it has 17 millions of inhabitants ) . The life style there is very much closer to NY or Tokyo. The difference between life in Karachi and the rest of Pakistan is huge. I am wondering how you yourself feel this difference. What do you think of it? Would you be able to live somewhere else than in Karachi? I have to say it was a shock for me to come to Karachi for the first time as I was born and grown up in small quiet town with 5000 inhabitants could you imagine?
Karachi as a city itself can be best defined as a metropolis within a metropolis, it is a cluster of ideas, thoughts and many conflicting point of views, according to the official count, taken a few years back, there were over fourteen million people residing in this city. As for myself, I can never think that I could become, or achieve even half of what I have an am today, if I was brought up in another part of Pakistan. I owe every single memory and thought to this mammoth of a city. It has proven to be the most beautiful place for me to grow up in. Nearly all text that I have written to date, has been inspired by the atmospheres the surrounding this city.
The most interesting factor about Karachi, like any other metropolis is that is features, such a diversity of people and cultures, that it could redefine the word diversity itself. There are different levels of life styles here that one could embrace, unlike some big western European cities I have seen, where one has to be in a certain status category to survive, or stay alive with the flow of the tide. People who have been residents of Karachi for many years now, are literally quite over protective about the city. After visiting some smaller cities in eastern and central Europe I can totally understand what you felt during your visit to Karachi.
Most people that make up an integral part of Karachi are individuals who usually travel long distances from other regions of the country to work and earn a living here, and according to them the best translation of Karachi itself is "The City of Lights".
On another note I shall start shooting my third "Improvisational / Situational" short film which is tentatively titled "Karachi", and if it results into a successful creation, it would be my token of appreciation for this city that mothered me through all these years.
How would you describe Pakistan as a country and what would you tell us about Pakistani people? Do you have any ideas about what is special or specific? How do you take in it? What is your point of view?
It is really a thorough mix of personalities residing in Pakistan. There are many cultural and regional differences between people, as there are four main provinces, with much more diversity within them. Communal ways of life are preferred in areas, whereas others live in a much selfish self centered fashion. Culturally nearly all individuals are tuned into their own frequencies and wave lengths, be it ancient or modern. This can be seen as one travels from area to area and city to city within the realms of the country.
Awareness for many things is growing within the hearts and minds of the citizens, in the recent years, there seems to be a need or hunger for certain basics like, general exposure to other societies around the world, interaction and progression. For many this is a step towards tomorrow from the people of Pakistan, for others it is a backward ignorant direction taking them away from morals, Para meters and religion. There is a very apparent difference within opinions, which seemed crystal clear only minutes back. As much as i love my country and the city I live in, unfortunately I do not agree with most modes of life here in Pakistan. A person comes across deception and double standards so many times in one single day, that it eventually numbs the senses.
There are some values that still need to be incorporated within the minds and hearts of the everyday man. This is not the result of region, religion or common sense, but a result of the lost societal pulse, which seems to have become ever absent within our people.
The reputation of Pakistan is quite bad here, in Europe here is very much prejudice, people are "scared of" Islamic world and in their eyes Pakistan is dangerous and wild. Before I went on my journey to Pakistan, many people told me not to go there, but I did not listen to them and once I was there I felt very well and safe, always surrounded by warm hearted and friendly people. But on the other side, we met a problems in Larkana and Sehvan Sharif when we were given a "bodyguard" there (against our protest!), police man who always carried a gun with him and was to look after us 24 hours in the day to secure our safety as it was very dangerous for white people to be alone in that part of the world, they say. But we did not feel any danger that was the funniest thing. On the other hand it is true that while traveling in Pakistan we met many people who told us Sindh province is not very safe. Could you comment this? Are there such problems inside the country, is it very often?
This could really result in unpredictable ways. The security issue throughout the entire Pakistan is quite a big thing. One can only hope that everything would result in peace and harmony, or rather just go ahead and take the risk of traveling such lands; just as you. Since, in my opinion, through these parts of the world, security threatening issues can take place any time and any place.
Like other parts of the world, security disruption here is not only caused by single track matters, but by a multitude of complications and issues.
There are many foreigners traveling without any security, and for them there journey ends safe and sound, and without any disturbance, just like you, but for others it ends up in complications beyond any immediate control. The guard given was provided for your safety in those areas, but the truth is, that even if ten more guards would have been there, they are literally powerless against negative forces.
However I really don't blame the Europeans for thinking in this manner, as Pakistani people migrating to various parts of the western world are always trying to meddle with rules and regulations, up to a very serious level, bringing great shame to their countrymen and identity. Coming back to security hazards in interior provinces, security reasons can arise without warning in these areas, even though things are not even quarter as band as Afghanistan, but still it would always result in a game of fate. Sometimes the most threatened of areas can remain peaceful for many months' even years.
In the same way, there is a story, that also Karachi is one of the most scary place on earth We couldn't say that, because we felt very safe while we were in Karachi as you were "protecting" us very well and with your great care and hospitality we felt as at home there .Which are the problems around there?
Security problems are existent all over the country as I just mentioned earlier. Surely in Karachi itself there are areas and localities that are not really safe to travel to after certain hours of the day, as the police have no control on some parts of these areas and self proclaimed groups causing security hazards, take over at most times. Other than that, the situation in Karachi has really improved since the past eight years or so, as before this time, it was not even safe to drive in a car during late hours of the night. Thankfully things have taken a turn for the betterment of Karachi.
Crimes in Karachi (as compared to other parts of Pakistan) are committed in a much more slick fashion, as this is the pure result of an ultra fast life style that Karachi dictates.
One of the "main" problems, which make Pakistan very famous in TV, is conflict between India and Pakistan about Kashmir. I visited the Indian part of this country and I have to say that after few months I spent in India I felt like back in Pakistan there. I mean when I compare how people are, what is the culture, religion and tradition like I was surprised that many local people told me they would prefer to be under Indian leading (if I am not talking about fundamentalists who fight for independence of Kashmir). What is your opinion? How long do you think the conflict will last? Is there any chance for truce? For peace which would help to all sides, for sure.
As a Pakistani citizen I cannot say much about the Kashmir conflict, since the story told to us about the entire wrestling match between India and Pakistan, by the history books renders a completely different image of the whole issue. But I can agree to what you heard from the Kashmir local people, as many of them share an opinion and want to join and remain a part of India at the end of the day. It is a sad thing; both the countries invest millions of dollars annually from their country's funds to keep their armies along side the highly symbolic line of control. This money (if not spent to fight over Kashmir) could be invested in numerous other gestures that would direct the society towards better avenues.
What was a very nice surprise for me in Pakistan was your great, great hospitality. With you, Babar, I could think it was because I am your "metal brother" from Europe, but the fact is, that we met many people who cared so much and look after us so nicely as it was unbelievable for us, some times We met this great hospitality every day, on many places still there was somebody who want to pay a cup of tea for us, prepare a meal for us, buy a fruit for us, take us home etc. I have never met anything like that! Nowhere in the world! For me, Pakistan is the friendliest country I have ever visited! That is why I would like to ask you what "white face" means for Pakistani people, what foreigner, European is for them? What is the relation ship there? The other thing I am impressed to know is, if the people behave as we experienced it also in interaction between themselves , between locals Or is it specific for behaving to guests etc. What does "the guest in the house" means in your culture? Does it have any spiritual, religious level too?
Thank you! Guests are always more than welcome in most households, especially within the rural areas of Pakistan. It has a cultural and religious significance for people. For example the tradition of suggests that, when a guest arrives at ones home, he brings with him blessings and positivism. This belief I think, is quite thoroughly imprinted within the minds of our people. Other than that, most of people from the present generations in our rural areas have only seen images of white people in books, films, or on television. This fact opens a lot of possibilities and doors for tourist like you. And besides that, the most important thing is that, mostly people in the rural or under developed areas do not lead complicated lives, and only judge another person from what they see in front of their eyes, meaning if a person from a totally different part of the world arrives in their town and he or she apparently doesn't seem of any harm to them or their culture, then the person could live with them in their houses for the longest time possible.
You have been to Europe many times before. You have also been to Asia and you just came back from USA before some time. How do you cope with difference between Thailand, Malaysia and Europe or USA, for example? How do you feel about the people in Europe and USA? Do you have any negative experience? Have you faced any problems connected with racism etc?
In the past few years I have traveled more towards the western world, than my own continent itself, the reason being that mainly, opportunities for me as an artist lie more towards the west, and if you mean more specific, then I should quote that yes, I thoroughly perceive Europe as the Hub for creativity and art.
This I should suppose is the main difference I see between Europe and the rest of the world. Truly speaking, I am a massive fan of Europe's current and past statuses. I have also known many personalities both in times now and before who have chosen to travel and reside in Europe for the rest of their lives. Many a times when I participate in conversations with people here from my profession, usually I seem to be the only one speaking in praise of European countries, mainly because most people aspire and visualize America as the perfect and final option for all events that will ever take place in this world.
The main difference that I see between Europe and America would be a little hard to write about because it mainly deals with how I feel and take effect from various elements. For example in Europe, from what I have gathered, there is an existent scent of culture and self-being. There is the presence of individuality that I witness in most places I am passing through. On the other hand, in places like America, I find that most things (everything from architecture to literature) have a very fresh feel to them; I cannot smell the culture in most of these things. Being centered in a place like Karachi, which itself is a mega polis of ancient cultures, I really relate to places and destinations that have a similar flavor to them, even if that is on a completely different level. I hope that I can make some communication with what I have just said.
I really have never faced any problems with complications such as racism, even though earlier this year I was in parts of Poland where one can hardly see any colored people, yet it was fine and smooth.
You have also visited Czech Republic once and you spent few days in Prague. How did you like our capital and what interested you, what did you like and don't like there?
I visited Prague last year during springtime. That was a result of a film seminar and forum that I was attending and was a possibility through the Goethe Institute in Prague. It is a great city and I took long walks through the bridges and the parts of the old city at nighttime. It was my first experience of an Eastern / Central European country. I felt the difference in atmosphere immediately, which came across as a pleasant change. One of my favorite films "Kolya" is shot on location in Prague and it was a superb feeling to walk through some of these streets. Prague has the environment of a big city but the overall ambience, some what compliments the entire wide screen picture and prevents it from being a slave to one of those hazardous metropolitan city gloom phases. And yes, it was in this city where I managed to meet Pavel Tusl, the legendary owner of "View Beyond Records", he showed me some record shops where I bought some LPs from some Czech bands and some CDs as well. I hope the future allows me to see and visit more of Czech Republic and some of its neighboring countries.
One more thing that surprised me in Pakistan was a fact, that there is not such an "against American atmosphere" there as I was to expect... I have also met few people who told me openly that they would love to go to visit USA some time you told me you don't like USA for it creates a wrong impression about Islamic world. What do you think about conflict between USA and Afghanistan, USA and Iraq etc?
The real hype is always created by the real evil, that is the media, portrayals of good and bad, people's reactions and other elements are always distorted by media companies the world over. There surely exists an anti American sentiment within the common man, but not to an extend as one comes across on television channels etc.
The United States is blamed for everything and anything that goes wrong within the Muslim world. However this is never the real case. America is made into a scapegoat entity for most of the suffering by religious figures. Even if the "Anti American Sentiment" exists on a scale of protests and anger, it is put forward by a small group of people. Most individuals from the western world come under the impression that Pakistan is a pure Anti Western state, where as this is never the case. People have always aspired to visit and earn money in these countries such as the United States. Working as a media person for a while I came across people who have special religious prayers that would help them get American Immigration. The most amusing point here is that people who share a very Anti USA sentiment and are always involved in these heated discussions are the ones who are always sending their children to study at University in the United States of America.
I agree that at many places in the west the nature of Islam and Muslims is blown out of proportion, but at the same time I should add that this is mostly the doing of certain individuals that are at high positions within the religious circles. An everyday working class man from Pakistan only acquires one thing in life, and that is peace of mind and security for himself and his family. These can be qualified as the basic values here in Pakistan and I think they are not much different from any place else where in this world.
I really choose not to comment on the remaining part of the question such as the Iraq and the Afghanistan issue. Please watch the next film by American writer / director Michael Moore to get more of a focus on this entire subject matter.
Please tell me what would you imagine when you hear: DEATH, OPETH, BLACK SABBATH, ROOT, DEMIMONDE, AMBER ASYLUM, THE SWANS, ARCTURUS, KING CRIMSON, FUN DA MENTAL.
There seems to be an entire spectrum of musical tastes that are featured here, Death was always more like a phenomenon for me than a band or a musical outfit. The entire diversity that Chuck Schuldiner managed to create while keeping evolution, innovation and progression in mind was really impressive. He seems to be a personality who single handedly changed a lot for the unite world of Metal. My favorite album is of course the Human record, which they did in 1991. That record was really well produced and the musicians working on it proved to be my favorites in the coming years. It was a sad day for me when I read on the internet, that Chuck had passed away, I still remember I was in Nepal at that time.
When I first heard Opeth, it was on a compilation from their record label, I think it was 94 or something like that, maybe later, but what I experienced was sheer brilliance. Mikeal and the others really know what they want as a final result, but sadly since after the release of their third album, My Arms Your Hearse, i feel that they just kept on glorifying their already created sound, more like just improvising more on what they already had done in the past. In 99 after the Dusk debut was released, I sent Mikeal a copy of it and he actually thought that the sound was very innovative, I recently met him after a concert they had in Detroit USA, and to my surprise, he actually remembered me after all these years. Steven Wilson their producer fronts a band called Porcupine Tree and I got introduced to the Porcupine sound a few years ago, and since then it really grows upon me, their last release In Absentia is highly recommended.
Black Sabbath is an eternal element in my life, I will not comment much about them, as any comment within any wave length for them, would never be enough. Geezer Butler taught me how to play bass guitar, as it was all early Sabbath recordings that I used to play bass guitar along with, and Tony Iommi, is like a God Father for me, I am honestly telling you. That man is a living genius, and for some strange reason I always feel he is still under rated and under respected, but that is the case with all the great things in this worldly existence. My favorite Black Sabbath line up is the one that played on the "TYR" release, with Tony Martin on vocals and Cozy Powell on drums, and production wise I really appreciate a record from them called "Seventh Star", it was totally evil genius.
My first exposure to Root was in some CD from some friend's abroad long time back, and after that I bought their legendary Hell Symphony record and once again thought to myself that these people did not get enough appreciation as they would have deserved. In their 95 release called Kargeras, they featured elements that gave other bands ideas later in that decade to make some great records. I feel that the Karegras record was at least 4 to 6 years ahead of its time and at the time of its release, people could really not absorb it. Two tracks from that record namely Lykorian and Rulbrah still numb my senses and for me the driving force behind the innovative sound of Root, are Guitarist "Blackie", because this man knows exactly what sound he is looking for, as one can also witness that with his recordings with Cales.
Demimonde are label mates for us now and it makes me completely proud to finally be under the same monikers as them, as I really always thought, that other bands on the same label have to have some connection within them through sound. I am not hinting that our sounds are similar, but at least there is an existent avant-garde quality within both the bands. Demimonde produce immense layers of sound, which actually tend to hook the listener eventually through repeated listens. I prefer their Mutant Star record any time. Not to mention they have the most beautiful woman on planet, as their Singer.
I have never been an intense fan of Amber Asylum albums, but I really appreciate some of their earlier work.
I always used to think that if some day I decide to kill my self, Mr. Micheal Gira from Swans will be completely responsible for my death. Swans make some of the most heartfelt sounds I have ever heard, at least in this life time; I feel that I would never hear bleaker sound passages. My favorite record is "The Great Annihilator".
Sometimes one feels that Arcturus was not just a side project, but other times I get the feeling that the key to their sound is the band being a side project. I heard a four song MCD from them very long ago in the mid 90's and was immediately hooked onto it. Later on, I was a big fan of both La Masquerade and the first official album, and the last record was also a great effort, with some really broad keyboard passages. However the release I enjoyed the most from Arcturus would have to be the Remixed version from La Masqurade. Both I and Faraz are very fond of work from both the bands Garm plays with, Ulver and Arcturus.
Lots of people who were there, during the 1970's and 80's as fans of progressive music always somehow compare us to King Crimson. I always have lots of comments that the Dusk sound has some serious hints towards bands like King Crimson, and to be honest we are very proud of these compliments. Means a lot for us, as King Crimson are considered the fore runners to the musical style called Progressive Rock or Metal.
Fun da Mental is the mastermind of a very aware individual, as the statements made as parts of their recordings are not the result of an ordinary mind set. I would not say that I am a great fan for their style, but I respect their offering and think that they deserve all the credit they have attained. And of course the front man is from Pakistan.
Could you let us know about your other musical projects and work?
Besides being involved in the final postproduction process for the new Dusk record, I have had some other duties on my plate. I have produced some local death and black metal bands here in Pakistan, and at the moment I am compiling the first ever "Metal Compilation" for Pakistan, which features homegrown acts from different parts of Pakistan. I started this quest late last year and sent out many emails and messages. As a result now I have fourteen bands from all over the country that are contributing a track each for this compilation CD. Since there was none such exposure or channel for Dusk when we started to play, I feel that I owe some things to help the Underground scene of Pakistan and want to see it prosper. Even though most of the bands that are in this underground scene are playing styles of music which they call Nu Metal, (that is one single style that I hate from the bottom of my heart), we are trying to grow an army of bands and artists that will remain true to the styles of Music that are still undiluted. The compilation should be ready by another few weeks and will be titled "Rise of the Eastern Blood". Northern Alliance is my main side project besides Dusk, and we played some great live shows in different cities through Pakistan in the past. The style of metal we play falls under the early 1980's Venom and Bathory category. Since I cannot really play this style of metal (as much as I love it) with Dusk, as musically I think we have progressed in many new directions, and horizons, Northern Alliance serves as a great vehicle for such nocturnal activities. Recently I also produced a very ambient sounding disc with a fellow drummer and a saxophone player locally.
As far as Art and Film are concerned, a lot has been going on at that front, since I am serving as a line producer for a German short film being shot in Pakistan as we speak. Other than that, I will start shooting for my own Fifteen-minute short film in the month of November / December. Hopefully I can finalize this by the end of the year so it can make appearances in film festivals the world over starting from January.
Being a great fan of collaborative work, I am also actively involved in a joint project with some other artists / animators / film makers from Poland and Germany. I foresee this to formulize into a solid film format by the middle of next year.
It is essential for me to be involved with Art at all possible times, as within the confines of this earth my small working studio seems to be my only asylum.
You are professional filmmaker in Pakistan. It has to be very interesting work. What is the situation in movie business there in your country? I think that Pakistan, same as India does not make a films of high quality and is not very imaginative and full of ideas Do you know a reason why so many junks is made there? Is there any film you would recommend to European eyes? Which European or American films do you like?
After I graduated from with art education 4 years ago, I really did not want to pursue a carrier in graphic design and advertising, as I thought this at the end of the day was never satisfactory. I always wanted to do something with film and photography, but unfortunately in the entire Pakistan; (to this day) we suffer from the absence of a Film School. This was thoroughly demoralizing, but since then, I learnt the ropes on my own and since two years I have been operating under the name of Diagram, which is a small film and concept company. www.diagramworks.com With Diagram we work in two modes, the first being pure commercial work that is for absolute survival in the local advertising market. And the second are short films and experimental video clips. We have not yet decided to make a big budget commercial feature film, because that is never my intention. I see no depth and no magnetism (with a few exceptions) within films from the Indian film industry, or even from Hollywood. I am personally a great fan of films from places like Iran, Central Asia, and Europe. My favorite Czech film as I mentioned earlier is called Kolya. If people from Europe would be interested, they should watch Iranian Cinema, which to me will become the biggest producer of creative films within the span of the next ten years or so. The only Pakistani film maker I can recommend is a man called Jamil Dehelvi, and he did some great films like "Towers of Silence" and "Blood of Hussein" among some others. Within the answer number fourteen have also mentioned my next film project that I should begin at the end of the year.
As an artist and a film maker I find myself much more at home in places like Iran, Germany, Czech Republic and Poland. Because of a thorough tradition in film these places have a much better effect on my mind set.
Maybe, this would seem to be a cliché, but still I would like to ask you this question… how do you see the future of the earth and people on earth? I am asking you because I have an idea in my mind - idea of you, living inside this big city of Karachi (world in the world) in the same conditions people live anywhere else in this world, in any other similar city in any other part of the world, but once you leave the city you would find yourself in one of the poorest country of the "third world". In Europe we have a sense there are such a things, such a problems, but people do not live with them, cause those problems are far away from us, like in the different world they do not care in most cases and they lie to themselves it is not their problem.
The other day I witnessed an Ambulance with accidental casualties, racing towards a hospital through a very congested road, where none of the other drivers seemed to be bothered to let the Ambulance have gang way to reach its destination. Sadly, incidents like this murder my senses and existence. How can people not feel the pain, how can one defy the vision they witness in the rear view mirror of their vehicle?
People living lives in comfort, are better aware of problems as compared to people living in huge complexes that encompass negativity and disillusion. I feel that ways of life, values, customs, and feelings are eventually deteriorating from this world. Some times I feel the way the future is expressed in high budgeted Hollywood films, might actually be true. It's almost like a machine running without any maintenance or attention.
According to my theology, if each and every one of us, living on this planet, just felt the "Suffering" for even a split second (even if it is not one's own), this world would turn to become a far better place to exist. And at the risk of sounding like the linear notes from a morality text book, I should conclude with some words from a famous Chinese Philosopher.
"Happiness is not in having what you want - But in wanting what you already have".
And that was my final question. Our interview is in the end. Thank you very much for your answers! If you feel like, please feel free to add anything you like for the end. Thank you!
Martin, I would take this opportunity to thank you eternally for this exposure to the Czech audience, I hope that this exposure to Dusk, its station base Karachi, and the involved individuals will result in growth of the number of people who can envision the dream scope that we portray. I owe my thanks to Pavel, Petra, Lukas, Blackie, and most of all to you Martin, as you have been a great friend, fellow metal head and a believer, in the dying light that brightens all existence.
With Eternal Gratitude for great Czech Beer.